Jun 3, 2007

English teaching in Saigon : The Jungle

The thirst of young people in Vietnam for the universal language that is English has inevitably created a market for schools. Big schools, little schools. Good schools, bad schools. Schools with accreditation, schools without accreditation. The debates go on and on. For the wandering but honest ESL teacher, it can be a real jungle.

Breaking down the kinds of school in Saigon is probably unwise, but not impossible, so I'm going to try it.

First we have two different sectors. We have students who attend International Schools and preparatory schools (much the same thing). Secondly, we have Language Centers, whose classes are based outside of school hours (in other words, evenings and weekends). I will start with the latter.

The language center is where you will find journeymen ESL teachers and also younger non-career teachers (by that I mean those who are TEFL certified but are only teaching as a means of living abroad for a few years). There are two kinds of language center. The 'heavyweights' have been established for a long time and have a good reputation, essential in attracting good quality teachers. ILA is the biggest of them all, with international recruitment campaigns for teachers. Every Saturday and Sunday the school causes chaos at kicking out time, with hundreds of kids needing to be picked up from this narrow entrance on busy Nguyen Thi Minh Khai.

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VUS is another monster with a number of campuses across the city.

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Then there are other schools with good reputations like my old employer CleverLearn or long established Apollo set up and managed by my fellow Saigon Raider Khalid Mahmood. For students, these places offer 90 or 120 hour courses in General English and exam preparation courses like TOEIC, TOEFL and IELTS.

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With the hugely increasing number of Vietnamese studying overseas, their scores in standard tests become insanely important, as a particular mark is required for university courses in western countries, and of course for the C.V as well. The trouble is that these tests neglect to examine real fluency in a language - take a look at some of the questions as a native speaker and you'll be reaching for the answer book saying 'WTF' as well. Hence, they require training. Hence, exam prep is now big business for language centers. ACET is another good school that does massive business with exam prep courses.

For teachers, each school has its own rep. ILA is known to be cliquey. You can work without meeting many other teachers at VUS. Smaller schools tend to be more personal, possibly a nicer environment to work in. Pay ranges from $13-$15 per hour at most of these language centers. In the heavyweights, you really have to do some hard time before getting a good schedule and good classes. You will be started in the kiddies Saturday/Sunday morning, where wee and poo line the floor, and your whole concept of self respect is called into question (I turned down a job at ILA when I arrived in Nam because that is what they offered me). Respect to those who are qualified to and love to teach the early learners. My limit is Grade 3.....

After the heavyweights, you have the minnows. These schools are about as subtle as a brick falling on your head. They may be chains across the outlying city districts or just a one off school that has to change the name on its front three times in a month. If your school is called 'Outerspace Language Center' or 'Phuc and Vu's excellent English Language Adventures' (ok I made the last one up) then you're in trouble.

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These schools can't afford to pay native speakers the wage that qualified teachers work for, so they employ almost anyone. I met a retired police officer from Texas who just walked into one such crap hole without a minutes worth of experience and started working almost immediately....'I don't know what I'm doing, they just wanna talk to me' he said in his southern drawl. Undeniably, and as spoken about before, there are some troubled characters on the teaching circuit, and it's not hard for them to eek out a weeks beer money from some language center somewhere or other. Salary from $8-$13, and mostly NOT reliable when it comes to payday.

The website Saigon ESL lists language centers by district (here) and also gives them a rating based on experience of previous teachers. I take it all with a pinch of salt having met my fair share of potential 'contributors' The only thing some of these people should be contributing is a piece of nonsensical graffiti to the inside of their padded cells. Generally however, if you see a school marked TOTAL HELL HOLE STAY AWAY on the site, then it's a good indicator to,errr, stay away.

The language centers recent focus on exam prep is either a lucky coincidence for them, or some good predictions about the market. They have a cash cow they can rely on, but their old banker, the kids programs, may be set to suffer. Affluent families can now also afford to send their kids to an International School (IS) or a prep school. First there are the fully accredited IB International Schools.

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Currently we have IS (International School of HCMC), BIS (British International School), SSIS (Saigon South International School), AIS (Australian International School) and ABC, with two more coming this September, AIS (American International School, going through accreditation process) and RIS (Renaissance International School). There's also the Singapore International School. These schools are full of expat kids, including an awful lot of Koreans.

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Tuition fees range from $7-$15,000 a year, depending on school and Grade level. Most average ESL TEFL certified teachers don't even look into opportunities at these schools, and they do prefer MA TEFL teachers that's for sure, but if you don't ask, you don't get.....Expect much better pay and conditions in these schools, and normal working hours.

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Along with the IS Schools are the prep schools - that is high schools with lessons probably in English and Vietnamese, preparing students for study abroad. APU is one such school, as is Asian High School.

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For ESL teachers, there are plenty of other options out there such as Vietnamese universities, corporate teaching and horrific kindergartens, but for now that is the end of my definitely non-exhaustive list and summary of teaching English in Saigon. For me, it's a case of finding the right environment to work in, and also the right conditions to let me enjoy my life, in other words, no evenings and weekends. I haven't worked at a language center for nearly two years, and I'd like to keep it that way. The opportunities are only set to increase in the coming years, with most if not all the above IS schools having plans for expansion. Parents are pulling kids out of public schools, and don't forget the 1000 odd students at the Korean School, half of whom are probably on the waiting lists..... all good news for teachers of English!

20 comments:

Unknown said...

Hey Jon,

You forgot VAS.

Also it is very true about VUS that you can work there and not meet many of the teachers.

I consider myself a "non-career" teacher, especially in the ESL field, and I've been stuck in the kiddies section for a while. I guess I'm just better suited for them. I can't say how nice it is some days just to be able to play with the kids instead of trying to grind an answer out of teenagers.

"This is a Red Ball" is sometimes better than "ok, who can tell me how to use the past perfect in this situation"

Brian

Rogena said...

Few questions Jon,
How hard is it to get a "worthy, good" job at a reliable school? To say the thought of teaching English in Vietnam hasn't crossed my mind would be a lie. The school I currently teach at in the states has close to 50% Vietnamese population (granted that doesn't mean what it used to in the 80s and 90s-most of our Vietnamese children are Americanized and language isn't as much a barrier as it used to be).
I have taken a couple of ESL classes, working toward certification. I wonder if ESL certification is enough or is there something more?

Thanks for posting, and the pics are wonderful. It is just wonderful for a "homesick" person. Another question-do you know how much is Vietnamese school for the children?

Rogena

Jon Hoff said...

Brian - I knew I would forget some of the schools...VAS..doh! I know what you mean...but for the same reasons I'd rather teach teenagers than adults...!
Rogena, I think all teaching jobs are worthy of something, as most of the students here really are willing to learn. It also depends on your qualifications. Are you a certified teacher? That would change the situation enormously.
My wife guesses that elementary school is about 2 million dong a year ($120) and high school around 3 million ($180). Just an estimate.

Anonymous said...

Its great to read posts like this Jon. you probably have no idea how many peoples nerves you are easing through this blog. Ill be traveling to vietnam in october to figure it all out. Im taking celta training at ILA actually.

Jon Hoff said...

Thanks Dave.
I can garuntee that there is something to suit everyone out there. It may just take a little time to find it. It also depends how resourceful you are -- you'll never find good jobs without being proactive.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure about easing nerves - quite the opposite with me: I'm quite shocked at the stories of the misfits who see teaching as an easy option to fund an extended holiday: I've met some strange characters, but didn't realise they were so prevalent.

I'll be coming back to Vietnam next January, and trying to find a job so I can stay for an extended period before making the final decision to move permanently. It's encouraging to hear that there are opportunities.

Chris said...

Hi Jon

Great blog, thanks very much for making things much clearer for me, in England, wondering what's what. I would very much like some advice, please. I have recently married a Chilean girl and we are wanting to come and live in HCM. We have both been accepted on a Celta course with ILA, however, they have made the following points:

My wife's English and grammar are good, but they say she may struggle, and not pass the course. She has a degree in journalism and has also done some teaching back home. I do not have a degree (gave up uni after a year, but I do have a Spanish Language diploma from the Univ. of Salamanca). They say that without a degree, I will never get a work visa in Vietnam, and without a work visa, I will never get a well paid job. As we plan to live there, not just visit, we will need as much money as we can earn. Will there be a problem without a work visa, or is there a way round this? We have to weigh up the cost of our flights and courses against the possibility of not finding good work.

Any advice would be very gratefully received. Many thanks

Jon Hoff said...

Hey Chris
I know non-native nationals who passed their TEFL courses. Some of the questions your asking are difficult to answer...send me an email and I can discuss more frankly. For getting a good well paid job I think the fact that you don't have a degree is more to worry about than the work permit issue. However, there is more than enough teaching work to go around. I can't make any promises because everyone is different in the way they approach these things....how resourceful are you!

Chris said...

Hi Jon,

Thanks for your reply. Can you email me - sunsetslinger@yahoo.co.uk - can't find your email address on the blog. Thanks - Chris

Eric said...

Fantastic primer for ESL teachers considering working in Saigon, Vietnam!

Clear, systematic, and detailed, you named names and provided a solid overview of a confusing, often tricky landscape. Thank you!

One paragraph, however, stands out for its insightful critique of certain educational trends. "With the hugely increasing number of Vietnamese studying overseas, their scores in standard tests become insanely important, as a particular mark is required for university courses in western countries, and of course for the C.V as well. The trouble is that these tests neglect to examine real fluency in a language - take a look at some of the questions as a native speaker and you'll be reaching for the answer book saying 'WTF' as well. Hence, they require training. Hence, exam prep is now big business for language centers. ACET is another good school that does massive business with exam prep courses."

As an English teacher at a private university in the United States, I completely agree. This widespread confusion of test scores with actual language fluency or academic preparation remains a huge problem on multilevels.

Thank you, again, for your excellent post. I'm visiting Saigon during Spring break and taking a look around in search of a satisfying position for the summer. Your posting just made my task far easier.

Jon Hoff said...

Thanks for your comment Eric!
This post was written a while ago and almost forgotten about...

Glad it was helpful for you (I'd say it is still relevant!)

Jon

TAG said...

Thank you for this blog. It seems VERY enlightening and helps with a lot of the questions someone considering travel to Saigon with this goal might have.


I live in NYC and have some friends from Phu My Hung who tell me it would be a great opportunity for me and that I could make decent money. To me it would be wonderful to learn about another culture and help them improve their lives. My friends are helping me get set up with everything and I am feeling pretty excited about it. Then again, I'm naturally optimistic.

I don't have a degree, I studied for a bit at a design school here, but lost interest. I have a decent vocabulary and command of the English language. Does this mean I'm going to go to travel across the globe just to be broke?

Thanks again for the blog.

Denise said...

Hi Jon,
Great blog! Been looking to come to East Asia for a long time now. Vietnam and Cambodia being my top places to live. My partner and I are English and live in the UK. Would it be worth just coming out and visiting the schools to ask for work? Or is it possible to secure employment from home? We don't have degrees and I know this could be a problem...But how much of a problem? We are pretty resourceful! ;)
My email is denise.velati@myvirtualpa.ltd.uk if you have anything that may help us?
Thanks.
Denise.

Anonymous said...

Hi Jon,

Fantastic blog. Funny, informative and insightful.

Just a couple of queries if I may.

I am planning take a work sabbitical, and head over to Vietnam middle of next year for around 6 months or so. I may stay longer if I enjoy it.

My hope is to find an English teaching job to support me whilst I am there, and I am planning to do one of these TESOL courses soon.

The concern however, is looking at all these Learning Centers that you've linked in your blog, they have a pre-req that you need to have a degree to get a job with them? Is this due the Vietnamese Gov't regulations requiring a degree to get a work permit? Or is it the Learning Center's policy you need a degree to work for them?

Reason I raised this query, is that I don't have a Degree. However, I won't have any issues at all getting a Vietnames work permit (don't ask /grin).

So as long as I have this TESOL qualification, and my own method to get a work permit, do you forsee any issues with me getting work with one of the more recognisable Learning Centers?

Thanks in advance for any feedback. Cheers - El.

uc-viet college said...

interesting site....dturnbull@uvt.edu.vn --we are looking for IELTS/CELTA trained teachers...full time email me:David Turnbull UC-VIET College Le Hong Phong 741-743 HCMC

Unknown said...

Hello Jon,

I'm planning on completing a CELTA training course at ILA in September, and had a few questions for you if possible. I completed my M.A. in Education about a year ago, and am looking to see if ESL teaching is for me. I am looking for a change in scenery, pay off student loans, and immerse myself in what I consider to be a very interesting culture and people. Would you think that spending the extra effort/money for a CELTA vs. a TEFL or TESOL would be worth it for me? Would it affect my employability in Vietnam, or in other parts of the world if you might know? Also, I lived in France as a teenager with my family and speak/write fairly fluently. Would this affect my employability in any way? Any information would be greatly appreciated, and thanks for the great posts.

Anonymous said...

When in Saigon, spend a few Saturdays or Sundays in the parks across from the Cathedral. Every time I sat on a bench there, within minutes, the college students surrounded me. All they wanted to do was practice their English. Their enthusiasm was refreshing and charming, and they are a nice oasis from the multitude of scams hindering downtown Saigon. If you're new to Saigon, feel free to contact me so I can fill you in on what to look out for. E-mail is JKelly5762@yahoo.com.

FINFIN said...

Hi all,
I am Tuan, 33 year old and living in HCMC now. I am looking for an english teacher that have knowledge a bout bussiness. All other terms will deal directly together. Please contact me at tuanfin@gmail.com or hand phone0938881168.

Anonymous said...

Hello all teachers,

My name is Hoa, I'm living in Vietnam and I'm Vietnamese. I'm looking for a foreign teacher to tutor me to learn English (Specially speaking and listerning).

If any teacher (with English native speaker) comes to Vietname, please contact me. I will help you with anything I can, such as: find renting rooms, find directions, etc.. with all free, even though you can teach me English or not. Because I just want to contact with English foreigner to learn more about English, culture, v.v..

If you can teach me English, I will pay tuition normally. I will also find other learners for you to teach English and they will pay tuition for you.

Please contact me with:
- Name: Hoa
- Email: maivanhoa@gmail.com
- Tel: +84937344000

PS: I'm not very good at English so may be I have wrong grammar.

Happy said...

In most of the language centers they do not ask for a work permit. It is ok to have a 3 months tourist visa and every 3 months get a new one. However in such schools probably you will not get a contract and without it you may loose your job immediately. It happaned to me. You can come on Monday to school and they may tell you that you don't work there anymore. So please insist on a contract. Or if they don't want to make it because you have no work permit then try to work in many schools and in case you loose the job in one, then you still have money from the others. Also I heard that in order to get a work permit it is necessary to have at least a Bachelor degree.